« Talking with Stephen King | Main | Academic Types »

December 03, 2007

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

McKenzie Wark

"I wonder if some of us have taken Marx for granted, failing to grapple with the theoretical as well as the political consequences of 1989--as far as the mainstream of the US and Europe is concerned, 1989 was the defeat of socialism."

Indeed.

Two curmudgeonly thoughts:
1. It wasn't that the communists did terrible things to the Russians, but that the Russians did terrible things to the communists.

2. Communism was and is a huge success -- in western Europe. Universal sufferage, free education, (partial) socialization of the means of production. That's most of what the Manifesto called for.

The flexiblity and plurality of the Marxist tradition has, for reasons it would be interesting to track, been largely abandoned. Let's hear it for Ernst Wigforss!

How did a bunch of Maoists and crypto-Spinozists get to speak in the stead of such a rich and varied tradition?

Jodi

Ken--here, here! Well said (I particularly like the last remark). Who is Ernst Wigforss? Anyway, if this were a wiki, I'd use your point number 2 to revise the first item on my little list--to claim the successes as crucial to what must be defended.

marcegoodman

I will confess to having my own Cass Sunstein moment a couple of weeks ago when I was saddened and dismayed to hear him on NPR talking about a recent study purportedly demonstrating a deterrent effect for the death penalty. I hadn't been aware that Sunstein's position had changed from opposition to a conditional support based on the conclusions of previous such studies. While my own politics track well to the left of Sunstein's, my reaction suggested that I likewise regarded him as a bellwether figure.

Alain

Jodi I agree with you the key point is "if even the mainstream and moderate supporters of democracy are abandoning ship, then we are really fucked." While this may be true in the theoretical setting I don't think we are there yet in practice. This may be an old distinction but it still seems valid to me that many people still crave a more civil, dare I say reasonable, politics in the United States. Whether those voices continue to get drowned out by the multi-media noise machine has not yet been decided.

pebird

FWIW:

1. This is the basis of every successful human organization - from family to community to corporation. When an economic-entity fails to heed this principle, they have become parasitic and have stopped adding value. They are stealing from you, and what do you do when someone steals from you?

2. If we can defend ourselves collectively, who needs a state? Doesn't everyone want smaller government?

3. Sorry, cannot help you here. The state is not your friend, despite the smiley face and occasional handout. Perhaps in a different setting, but we probably wouldn't call it a government.

4. Key issues need to be defined individually and linked collectively - start with basic human desire for freedom - in all of its forms. Remove abstraction - there is no oil/car dependency, etc. There are simply people who need to live different(ly).

McKenzie Wark

"Now win the peace" was Labour's slogan for the '45 UK election. The war was, among other things, a socialist victory. The Communists were the backbone of the resistance in France, Italy, Greece and the Balkans. The Americans bank-rolled social democracy in Germany, France and Italy to keep the Moscow-aligned left in check.

Mixed market socialism was the least-worst option available to the Atlantic ruling classes. When you mobilize a whole people in service to the state's war aims they invariably come home and demand something in exchange.

How western 'communism' was defeated is a long story. But for present purposes what's interesting is that what we now take to be the authorities on Marxist thought were outside this tradition: Maoists and Trotskyites. But not much in Negri or Althusser really makes much sense unless one knows a little about the various other legacies from Marx from which they were dissenting.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo