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August 22, 2009

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old - Doug Johnson

A very good article, I especially enjoy the bit about Stephen Hawking that I hadn't heard before, until it gets to the part about religion. The idea that faith is believing something without evidence is a very poor one, certainly nothing close to what Badiou would understand by faith/fidelity. Nor is it what most evangelicals understand by faith. Billy Graham often says something like, "I've never seen the wind, but I've seen the effects of the wind." I'm just astounded at times by how often liberals just don't get anything about the religious right. There is no doubt that the religion of the right has to be frontally challenged. But to do so, you've got to have something better than a kindergarten understanding of the way the evangelical universe operates.

Jodi

Old--I think I've mentioned that I grew up Southern Baptist. In this evangelical setting, the strength of faith was that it was not the same as evidence. It doesn't take anything to believe on evidence. It takes a lot, a special kind of commitment, to have faith. Now, as you say, there is more to it than this--there are effects. So, people talked about the effects of Jesus in their life, the effects of prayer. The thing is, seeing these effects as effects required faith (rather than saying the effects were luck, attributable to individual hard work, etc).

Is it possible, then, that as aspect of a specific discourse and practice--religious faith--has flowed way over its bounds, into all sorts of other areas where its effects are more pernicious? It seems to me that the answer is yes, particularly in the decline of symbolic efficiency when for most of us nothing is ever sure or grounded and everything seems to require a leap of faith.

Old - Doug Johnson

I'd be open to a certain amount of spillover, but don't by any means think it's the main cause of religious right disbelief of global warming or persistent belief in Iraqi WMD, etc. I'm much more convinced that these affirmations and denials are more bound up in a much more complex web of ways of being in the world, of whom to trust and whom to immediately receive with suspicion, what kinds of rhetoric and evidence to count as persuasive and what to blow off. It is interesting what you describe in terms of your baptist upbringing. I was raised in a variety of baptist settings and can certainly think of moments where I heard something along the lines of what you experienced. By and large, however, those that schooled me growing up insisted that faith and reason, science, evidence were not exclusionary, but rather complementary.

Karlo

As Lakoff points out in his discussions on framing, once Dems feel the need to defend themselves against these accusations, they affirm the frame--the notion that death panels and Kenyan conspiracies to smuggle in babies to become president are ideas that belong somewhere outside of tabloid headlines.

colin bowers

Karlo, my fear is that their is no non-tabloid style journalism left, at least on television in the USA, and it's even leaking into print sources. If you have a significant portion of the population that is willing to be spoon-fed information, and believe in "sources" like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Keith Olbermann, and unwilling to take the time and effort to get the facts straight, then the media has even more of an ethical burden to present balanced and fair coverage of timely issues. The media is the facilitator of the kind of vitriolic nonsense that gets bandied about in these 'debates' thinking that each and every opinion, whether professional or faith-based, should get equal airtime when clearly the media has a responsibility to denounce nonsense for what it is.(In point of fact, the more outrageous the claim the more likely it will get airtime, because people tune in to listen to nut-jobs. They make for better television than a Johns Hopkins U. scientist.) Not all opinions ARE equal. A climatologist ought to receive more credibility than some rancher in Montana who considers the weather every so often. But expert opinion gets labelled 'elitist' by the Right.

bob allen

one thing I find interesting is the difference between the virtual reality of the media, and reality. For example, in my workplace there is alot of rightist sentiment, because we have privileged blue collar jobs. So the fox news tea party stuff goes down well with about half of these folk- yet there is no real organization, they have no orientation toward collective action other than NRA gun club hot air. In contrast, when I went to a pro choice clinic defense in Nebraska recetnly, leftist activists crushed the theocrats of Operation Rescue, far outnumbering what the rightists hoped to mobilize. True, there had been a killing of Dr. Tiller that mightve thinned their ranks, but my point is, Fox News and even the banter of coworkers would make it seem a rightist uprising was nigh when in fact, Obama is prez, and we outmobilized and humiliated a group like Operation Rescue. Which only makes them more violently desperate of course...

colin

Bob, LOL@ the 'fox news tea party stuff'... seems more like beer-hall putsch fodder in many ways, but I get the point. And it is interesting, as a Canadian observer of US culture, politics and media, (and of course I know what you're saying is the reality) just how much sway the lunatic fringe has there, how loud their voices scream, how chock-full the media is with this stuff. I am not surprised at all that they are disorganized, that they don't come out to rallies like the one you mention in the same numbers as progressives, yet the 'virtual reality' of the media clearly has an agenda to puff them all up like giant blowfish to make them appear far more threatening than they actually are.

In Canada, which has become much more of a centrist country over the past 25 years, although still has a reputation (largely undeserved now) of being left-wing, the far-left and the far-right just don't get heard or seen to the same extent. We know they're out there, but they somehow feel immodest at blasting their idiosyncratic views throw megaphones, almost as though it would be a touch embarrassing to publicly air them.

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